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"Iraq for Sale"
- Thread starter Smiling JOe
- Start date
6thGen
Beach Fanatic
The trailer makes some decent points before it jumps to appeal to the viewer's emotion. The problem should be taken up with the ones paying the bill rather than the ones that receive the paycheck. The director seem to make the jump, and I assume they do in the film itself, that companies profit from war, so the decision to go to war was to generate income for the private companies (hey to Bob). Halliburton is a convenient boogeyman, but there isn't another company in the world that does what they do on the scale they do it.
One thing that chaps my ass is the female that said she was having trouble paying the bills back home. That is completely dishonest. Her income has substantially increased since she's been in a warzone and her expenses have drastically decreased. Her interest rates were lowered, her living expenses are covered, she's not paying income taxes while she's over there and she's receiving a theatre bonus. You can argue whether that's enough, but you can't honestly argue that fighting in this war has lowered her income or increased her expenses, which the trailer implies.
They could make some very valid points, and I'll watch it when I see that it's on, but they have to play Lou Dobbs because it's too tempting and more profitable if they put on the tin foil hat. They may honestly believe that, but they can pick up several well researched and well respected books that would change their mind if they wanted to offer a product that is honest, and fact checking should be a journalist's top priority. If anyone believes that they would proft as much if they put forth a completely intellectually honest argument, I have a Gulf front condo in Panama City to offer them at 2005 prices. Real estate never goes down.
Smiling JOe
SoWal Expert
As I stated, I watched the movie. Apparently, you watched only the trailers.
The female whom you mention, was comparing her pay to that of private contractors being paid $120,000 for nine months work.
I'm not sure of your point for posting, and think you should watch the movie before going off on the movie. ;-)
The female whom you mention, was comparing her pay to that of private contractors being paid $120,000 for nine months work.
I'm not sure of your point for posting, and think you should watch the movie before going off on the movie. ;-)
6thGen
Beach Fanatic
Like I said, I'll watch the movie. Do they make the jump that we went to war for the financial gain of private companies, aka Bush's buddies? It's pretty clear that they do from the trailer, at the very least they imply it. So, as you clearly stated, you watched the movie, I only watched the trailers, do they imply that we went to war for the financial gain of private companies?
As for the female, comparing is silly and futile. If her sole reason for joining the services was because she thought that the military was her best financial option given her means, their premise still would not have merit. My point is the film's directors are exploiting her as a victim, for their financial gain. She's not. I can complain that I'm working hard and not making what Steve Schwarzman is making, but it doesn't follow. We don't live in a vacuum.
As for the female, comparing is silly and futile. If her sole reason for joining the services was because she thought that the military was her best financial option given her means, their premise still would not have merit. My point is the film's directors are exploiting her as a victim, for their financial gain. She's not. I can complain that I'm working hard and not making what Steve Schwarzman is making, but it doesn't follow. We don't live in a vacuum.
Smiling JOe
SoWal Expert
Silly and futile? Try leading troops with moral being extremely low because of things such as private contractor being paid 3-4 times the pay as much as the military, and those contractors don't have to join the Armed Services. I am sure that they love it. What happens when all of the military troops get greedy and decide to screw that sh_t and go to work for the companies who pay the big bucks? Who is left to fight?
Trailers are made to spark interest, and get you to watch a movie. They, with the exception of a few Hollywood flops, are not the entire movie. The movie does show connection between the private contractor companies and the gov't, and shows that many of the jobs were given to these private companies without even getting a second bid. Maybe Halliburton is the only company which was able to handle the job, but if other bidders new it was a cost-plus job, where they could make $99 for each load of gov't laundry they washed, there would be other bidders step up. Also, the movie remarks on the fact that Halliburton wasn't doing the job, such as the case with the water treatment. The list goes on and on. The premise of the movie is about the private contractors caring more about the profits than their employees, and the private contractors stealing from the gov't and American people by over-billing, in some cases, by providing services never delivered.
I would think that all Americans would be a little pissed off after watching this movie. I see it more pointing the finger at corrupt politicians on both sides of the isle, rather than being the typical anti-Bush movie, which you are probably thinking it is.
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GoodWitch58
Beach Fanatic
I haven't seen the movie yet, but the comment by 6th Gen about the "female" is over the top..
if she is a member of the National Guard or a reservist who has been called up, then her pay probably is much less than what it was before...and her bills at home have not gone down, she may or may not be getting extra pay (It took my Senator's intervention to get my son's unit their wartime pay! for one deployment), she most likely is not getting a reduction in anything--have you ever attempted that paperwork process?
It seems to me that you have drunk the Bush.Cheney Kool-Aid, 6th Gen, and no matter what, you are going to support that line of thinking...it is really too bad that you and others can't be a bit more open minded, especially about things you have not experienced first hand. Because the lack of questioning about such things as this war is what is the real danger to our way of life.
if she is a member of the National Guard or a reservist who has been called up, then her pay probably is much less than what it was before...and her bills at home have not gone down, she may or may not be getting extra pay (It took my Senator's intervention to get my son's unit their wartime pay! for one deployment), she most likely is not getting a reduction in anything--have you ever attempted that paperwork process?
It seems to me that you have drunk the Bush.Cheney Kool-Aid, 6th Gen, and no matter what, you are going to support that line of thinking...it is really too bad that you and others can't be a bit more open minded, especially about things you have not experienced first hand. Because the lack of questioning about such things as this war is what is the real danger to our way of life.
LightWorker
Beach Fanatic
Coming from a military family I have seen how hard it can be on the family at home. I will watch this and learn because if drunkkenartist recommends it is worth the time. Thank you Smiling JOe
Chickpea
Beach Fanatic
I too will watch the movie with interest- big surprise there and will no doubt agree with the premise as well as with what SJ has stated!!
However I have to say that for ONCE, I actually agree with something 6th gen said (if I understood him well) that the AMERICAN people should be outraged and furious as to how the post war no bid contracts have been awarded, how hundreds of millions have been squandered and how such large sums have gone unaccounted for (of OUR money!).
I think there are going to be a very large number of people in the upper echelon of the pentagon who will in the future years, try to purge their ever increasing guilt, cowardice and conscience by writing pathetic tell all memoirs/books, giving interviews, etc... about how they were misled, misinformed, not listened to, ignored, etc, etc.. and blah blah blah, because so many of them will feel great great shame at having so easily rolled over and betrayed their own beliefs for the likes of the bullies like Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz. And they will have to, for the rest of their lives, live with the cold reality that their lack of character and weakness will have led to men and women dying needlessly.
However I have to say that for ONCE, I actually agree with something 6th gen said (if I understood him well) that the AMERICAN people should be outraged and furious as to how the post war no bid contracts have been awarded, how hundreds of millions have been squandered and how such large sums have gone unaccounted for (of OUR money!).
I think there are going to be a very large number of people in the upper echelon of the pentagon who will in the future years, try to purge their ever increasing guilt, cowardice and conscience by writing pathetic tell all memoirs/books, giving interviews, etc... about how they were misled, misinformed, not listened to, ignored, etc, etc.. and blah blah blah, because so many of them will feel great great shame at having so easily rolled over and betrayed their own beliefs for the likes of the bullies like Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz. And they will have to, for the rest of their lives, live with the cold reality that their lack of character and weakness will have led to men and women dying needlessly.
6thGen
Beach Fanatic
It’s not over the top, it is a legitimate criticism of a movie appealing to the viewer’s emotion. It’s one of the lower forms of debate, but it’s one reason why O’Reilly and Dobbs are so popular, and why people believe that Oprah knows what she’s talking about when she opens her mouth about politics.
You make a point if she was a reservist. However, she still receives a tax free income over there, a significant bump in pay, and wartime income. I understand your frustration with the work it takes to receive extra pay or lower interest rates, but that’s a problem with the functioning of the incentives. The incentives are still there. Blame bureaucracy and push for a smaller government.
As for the Bush-Cheney Kool Aid, I’ve not tasted it. I just realize that if I get on here and state the many frustrations I have with this administration, NCLB, Medicaid, nominating Harriet Miers, certain incompetent help, Nixonian insulation, the complete inability to sell good policies, etc. I’ll get a yea, me too response. This board hates Bush. So if I point out that I’m frustrated as well, there is no discussion.
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