Gender in the workplace/world

[Beach Runner]

IMO women don't make as much money as men because we are women. We are the only ones who can get pregnant. Females of child-bearing age are discriminated against because many employers don't want to spend the time and money to train or promote an employee when her taking maternity leave is looming in the distance. Then females who reach the point where they are finished with childbearing just can't devote as much energy to our jobs as our male counterparts. As much as my husband helps, I was still responsible for managing my job, the house(s), the meal planning, the grocery shopping, the cooking, the laundry, paying the bills, childcare, driving our child to her extracurricular activities, etc. The years of my career in which I was at the point at which I could have been promoted to a higher-level were exactly the years when I had my biggest responsibilities as a wife and mother. How could I possibly compete with males who could put in after-hours face time at the office, eat lunch with the boss, etc., (you know, the networking that gets you ahead) when I was running errands during my lunch hour and doing other non-job-related activities while "the guys" were bonding?

Anyhow, that's my take on it. In my next life I want to be a man.

 

[scooterbug44]

But he and the female professor dove into a discussion about how there are certain professions that require a lot of flexibility; you have to be able to commit to long hours and running off on a moment's notice. A lot of women can't commit to that because of family or won't commit to it because they want to plan for families.

I thought it was a valid point. Several of the females I've asked have answered along the lines of, "I don't want all the headache/responsibility/demands that go with those upper echelon jobs." A lot of the females who have the intelligence, talent and training for the jobs are not as ambitious as their male counterparts; they don't require or desire recognition. I know that's the case with me a lot of times; I don't really care about being famous (I'm already a big deal!) I just want to do what I enjoy and pay the bills.

I think time management and having the right partner are all HUGE factors in being able to have both a family and a career. No offense to any single parents a.k.a. saints, but having kids is a time and attention consuming job that needs more than one person to share the work load (straight from my parents' mouths).

Seriously, after you give birth/stop nursing, there is no reason why one partner is more responsible for the care of the children than the other. I don't know of many men who are willing to make the career, time, and social sacrifices that society demands from women as a matter of course where family is involved. My guess is that if it became as accepted for men to be househusbands as it is for women to be housewives, women would have no trouble having both a family and career.

 

[seaside2]

Having been in the work place for lots of years (Unfortunately), I have to agree with a lot of what BR says. It is, from a career perspective, unfortunate that women have babies, raise children, cook, clean, etc. Just can't be helped.

The other option is for women to forego the childbearing thing. Tough to do. They are manufactured and programmed to have and raise kids. It affects them in ways that defy explanation, even if they don't have children.

I see a lot of really driven career women who turn into the corporate b$tch. I sense that they really deep down inside hate they way they have become.

Solution

 

[scooterbug44]

As much as my husband helps, I was still responsible for managing my job, the house(s), the meal planning, the grocery shopping, the cooking, the laundry, paying the bills, childcare, driving our child to her extracurricular activities, etc.

Um, exactly what does your husband "help" with? Yardwork and insect assassination are the only things I didn't notice on your list.

 

[NoHall]

IMO women don't make as much money as men because we are women. We are the only ones who can get pregnant. Females of child-bearing age are discriminated against because many employers don't want to spend the time and money to train or promote an employee when her taking maternity leave is looming in the distance. Then females who reach the point where they are finished with childbearing just can't devote as much energy to our jobs as our male counterparts. As much as my husband helps, I was still responsible for managing my job, the house(s), the meal planning, the grocery shopping, the cooking, the laundry, paying the bills, childcare, driving our child to her extracurricular activities, etc. The years of my career in which I was at the point at which I could have been promoted to a higher-level were exactly the years when I had my biggest responsibilities as a wife and mother. How could I possibly compete with males who could put in after-hours face time at the office, eat lunch with the boss, etc., (you know, the networking that gets you ahead) when I was running errands during my lunch hour and doing other non-job-related activities while "the guys" were bonding?

Anyhow, that's my take on it. In my next life I want to be a man.

Isn't that whole child-rearing thing amazing? I have several friends whose husbands are great with the kids (and a couple whose husbands don't know which end the diaper goes on...) but there is just no substitute for Mommy. My brother will even get frustrated that he can't comfort his children when they want Mommy.

But don't you think the whole maternity-leave conundrum is changing? Women in general are not marrying as soon as they're finished with college; instead of marrying at 22, they marry at 26 or 28 or 30. Plenty of time to actually have a career before kids become an issue. Telecommuting is an option, too. There is less of an excuse these days.

p.s. There is no way I'd want to be a man...In my next life I want to be a kept woman. Heck, there's time for this in THIS life. (Interested parties may submit tax returns from the last five years...)

 

[scooterbug44]

Having been in the work place for lots of years (Unfortunately), I have to agree with a lot of what BR says. It is, from a career perspective, unfortunate that women have babies, raise children, cook, clean, etc. Just can't be helped.

There's a secret men don't want you to know, but the stove, microwave, dishwasher, and vacuum do NOT require an X chromosome to operate properly! ;-)

And a lot of dinners can be cooked on a BBQ grill!

 

[NoHall]

There's a secret men don't want you to know, but the stove, microwave, dishwasher, and vacuum do NOT require an X chromosome to operate properly! ;-)

And a lot of dinners can be cooked on a BBQ grill!

Like I said, I know lots of men who are great about cooking, cleaning, and vacuuming. They change diapers, they read stories, they help with homework, give baths, and even send Mommy away for weekends with the gulls.

But when baby gets sick, he wants Mommy, not Daddy. When he's really tired and cranky, Daddy is no good. It's a weird thing...

 

[Beach Runner]

Um, exactly what does your husband "help" with? Yardwork and insect assassination are the only things I didn't notice on your list.

I "manage the house" and am responsible for it. He helps me. Big difference. He does do the yardwork because it is ridicidulous what lawn-care services charge to come in and mow-and-blow in 20 minutes. And he does chores like changing out the flood lights (no way I'm getting on a 24-foot ladder) and "fixing stuff" (not a skill I have).

And he despises grilling because he can't stand getting hot. As a matter of fact, we never grill outside anymore. I do all of the grilling on the George Foreman or the Cuisinart. As an aside, the George Foreman works better even though the Cuisanart gets better reviews.

Maternity leave? When you work for a private company/institution, they don't have to do you any favors.

 

[scooterbug44]

And he despises grilling because he can't stand getting hot. As a matter of fact, we never grill outside anymore. I do all of the grilling on the George Foreman or the Cuisinart. As an aside, the George Foreman works better even though the Cuisanart gets better reviews.

Maternity leave? When you work for a private company/institution, they don't have to do you any favors.

That's so funny because we had 90% grilled meals in the summer because my parents didn't want the house to get hot/use the oven! It dropped to about 50% in the winter.

I think a lot of it depends on your personal situation. I have a friend whose family is so traditional her parents had an arranged marriage, yet very much against their cultural norm her dad was the one who did a lot of the childcare and cooking because he was a graduate student and her mom worked full time - while having 4 kids. The 5th they both raised as they were both working at that point.

Definitely agree that maternity/paternity leave is a big problem.

 

[Beach Runner]

Definitely agree that maternity/paternity leave is a big problem.

When I was pregnant with Beach Jacket, I went into labor at 26 weeks which was unviable at that time. I was in Atlanta Medical Center (back then it was called Georgia Baptist Hospital) from late November until late January when my labor was induced at 36 weeks because the stress was tearing us all apart (I went blind due to migraines, husband was a basket case driving back and forth to downtown Atlanta, and Mom got Bell's palsy from the stress).

I started back to work in late March. My employer paid me my full salary for those four months. I really appreciate that. It was totally due to the president of the institution, and that's one of many reasons I love him to this day. I can't tell you how many times he visited me in the hospital. I will always you Walter, and you beautiful wife, too!

Four years after that I got pregnant ... twice. The dean at that time told me, "We don't have to give you any maternity leave or benefits or ensure your job position" (even though I had tenure ). Both pregnancies ended in a miscarriage. I guess that dean was relieved that I lost those babies so that he didn't have to deal with the lawsuits that my husband and I would definitely have pursued if (a) I lost benefits, and (b) my career had been jeopardized.