Bush is an idiot

[Teresa]

I used to have a library card. Does that count?

hell yes it counts! and I used to have a Sam's card, and it had my picture on it too.

 

[Bob]

Bob,
I'll take any reference to heeding Carter with a grain of salt. I agree on the dependence on foreign oil, but it's not that easy. The Russians have and will have far more leverage with crude than the Middle East, which is scary as hell. However, there isn't a real alternative right now. Sure, we can stop importing oil, but there is a cost. Our economy would drastically slow (you think Smoot-Hawley was bad, watch if this had happened), and while it would slow but not stop dollars funneled to hostile states, it wouldn't stop the yen, yuan, rupee or euro from enriching the hostile states. In the meantime, foreign economies would leave the US in the dust, and our geopolitical stronghold would cease. There are answers, but it is best to leave them private sector, who has far more incentive than the public. As for unilateral war, please don't dumb down my argument. I never said any of that.

Well put, but the argument for the lack of change is the same one that has the EPA sitting on its hands regarding emissions, and you know how childish it is to see our Pres say, "if they[China,india] cheat, what's the point"? This is the argument of a man who supports the status quo. No excise taxes for gas hogs because you'll hurt an already wounded Detroit. Meanwhile the big three were invited to D.C. a couple weeks back, yet no invite for Toyota, which employs thousands of Americans and is leading the technological change we need. This is simply a lack of intellect and leadership, and protects the status quo, which means nothing changes until a catastrophe occurs. The free market does not work in the presence of monopolies or oligopolies, Econ 101. Government can and should incentivize change through a series of tax credits[high efficiency products] and excise taxes that will get the big 3 off their dimwitted, short-term thinking butts. You can't charge 40k for a mainstream, fuel-efficient everyman's car, yet everyone will line up for the extended cab, V-10, big wheeled slice of Americana, the SUV/Truck. They'll throw a six year loan on that pig and will be proud of it. That's it in a nutshell, because it's the way many folks want it. Both the everyman's fartbox and the over-chromed SUV cost about the same to produce and Detroit is going to be dragged kicking and screaming here along with half the American public in order to change to a sane energy policy. No one will leave the U.S. in the dust provided we have forward looking leadership that promotes our strengths.... technology and innovation. I've had six plus years of fear mongering about the middle east boogie-man is going to get us and the whole charade over there is nothing more than trying to manage the unmanageable. Adapt and leave those people alone!!!!!!!!!

 

[Seababe]

"You know who he was running against, right? I'll give you a hint - it wasn't Lady Thatcher."

Could have been Bozo the Clown and we still would have been better off.

"We are a global community." That's a cute T-shirt and a swell Michael Jackson song, but it's nowhere near the truth."

Depending upon what age you perspective comes from, and the Michael Jackson reference worries me enough, the 47 and a half years I've been around it has become, is becoming, and will continue to become a global community.

But what do I know? I'm just a lil 'ole liberal arts major. But, if anyone needs some Bach tranposed I'm here for ya.

 

[30A Skunkape]

And while we are at the Mensa picnic the militant Muslims will be plotting our destruction. Damn, we are geniuses.

 

[6thGen]

6thGen,
I am not about to accuse anyone of being an idiot nor do I intend to be patronizing even though I am sure I come off that way at times. I am going to try address your points succinctly because we are obviously worlds apart in our opinions and neither of us will EVER convince the other.

1) You say you love the gem I added about people regretting their decision to vote for Bush - I actually fervently wish I knew less Bush supporters than I actually do but I am surrounded by people here in this conservative part of Florida who have been vocal about this and do regret their vote - sorry - what can I say - I get angry with them but they are actually more angry at themselves than I am!

2) I remember who he was running against but I have no desire, will or inclination at this point to debate the merits of John Kerry - I know many people disliked and did not respect him but IMHO he would have been head and shoulders a better alternative - heck - anyone for that matter would have - no need to respond to this point though -it is moot.

3) How was Bush awarded the presidency????? Hmmmm, let's try recall the FACTS from 2000- Bush loses popular vote - yes, yes I know that does not matter - it is all about the electoral votes - so it is left to this State of ours and after months of hanging chads, lost votes, mistakes made on both sides, etc.. the supreme court HANDS him the presidency!

4) I have no worry about you picking on me - I have no idea whatsoever of what is an acceptable loss for casualties of war - what I do know however is that the losses suffered on both sides, but much much more so in sheer numbers on the Iraqi civilian side SHOULD be UNACCEPTABLE to all. Full stop. Period. Would you accept these losses here? Look at what happened when 3000+ innocent lives were lost on 911...... I will never be convinced this was a justifiable war. Simple as that.

I will also add that it is despicable, disingenious and hypocritcal to accuse people who vehemently oppose this war of being unpatriotic (and I am not saying you are doing this!) - I would add that this administration in their callous lack of regard for human rights and the ease with which they accept human sacrifice make them the unpatriotic ones.

5) Your stab at Carter and his policies fell flat with me - sorry - I am quite familiar with the nuances and difficulties of middle eastern politics and have my own ideas of what could possibly work. In an age where violence and bullying have become the norm I would welcome a visionary who could bring about change and democracy in a peaceful manner - you are welcome to call me naive and wishful.

6) I can skip portion of global community as I did not say that.....

7) Your disparaging comment about a balanced budget being regrettable is .. how do I put this....regrettable. Glad that you happy that you have been handed an unprecendented deficit - I trust that you will not mind if I tell you that probably many people are PISSED as hell about China holding such large IOU's.

8) I am just as tired as you seem to be about the debate on Bush being or not being a conservative and please tell me that you do not seriously believe that Bush is a compassionate conservative or fiscally responsible???? And absolutely NO, you did not all know what you were getting into bed with as you so quaintly and easily put it - read the dozens of editorials of hard core republicans who are sickened by how Bush and his party have violated and desecrated the tenets of the GOP.

9) Please do pipe up and explain who exactly is paying attention to Bush right now because I really really want to know? The people in this country??? Well maybe the 25% or so who approve of him -another 50% are paying no attention whatsoever with the remaining 25% probably actively working against him (these are just approximations and wishful thinking apart from the 25-30% approval rating which is actually thankfully documented (lest I be accused of being partial or biased!)...The house and Senate?? No -not them either? Oh, I see you mean other nations??? Nope, they have tuned him out and are now more interested in his successor - the UN possibly??? NO, sorry - they too have little interest in listening right now to his pathetic rhetoric... He is actually as lame as a lame duck can be - thankfully unelectable again - even more thankfully his VP is also unelectable, many members of his own party are running away from him and his policies in their own hopes of re-election - so pray do tell - who is listening and paying attention????

10) Your statement about prefering not to ask the rest of the world for their opinion if it involves protecting this country (and I going to try be very polite and not insulting here) is actually very sad because you probably believe the rubbish you are being fed. You probably believe you are safer now then before and how wrong and misguided you are in this. What your president has wrought upon this world with his arrogance and disregard is mindboggling and tragic - yes, tragic! For those of us who actually enjoy traveling, relish the differences in cultures and religions (and do not mock me by shooting down this argument by talking about suicide bombers or other extremists as I am talking about the vast majority of sane people who all want we all aspire to have - love, happiness health, etc..) we are dismayed by how much standing we have lost in the world and by how much more vulnerable we are.

And whilst many of my statements are indeed opinions as you state, my statement of the intelligence agencies of this country (you can happily forget other countries' intelligence for this point) telling him he was heading into an abject debacle is fact. You and I have absolutely nowhere to go if you believe this war was justified and if you do not believe that information was misused and trumped up in order to make a bogus case for war (for Christ's sake, even Powell now regrets his supposedly due dilligence and intelligence gathering!)

Real war and real foreign policy is as you say complicated. It is messy and hard and cannot be summarily summed up with bullet points and rhetoric. Too bad we had/have a president who could not respect due process, who found it alarmingly simple to march us into this war of madness on trumped up charges of protecting us, who bullied with embarrassing insouciance and indifference to other nations and who has now handed the world a mess of unimaginable proportions.

3. The Supreme Court did not hand Bush the Presidency, the Court turned it back to our humble state and told them that if they couldn?t offer a consistent and Constitutional method of recount, then they couldn?t put the rest of the country on hold while they got their act together. By the way, how did Gore?s recount go? What about the NYT recount? In the end, who had more legitimate votes ? Bush or Gore? Thanks.

4. Do you apply the same standard to Truman?

5. I?d love to hear these ideas.

7. How long have we been hearing about unprecedented deficits? I?m not a protectionist, and I?m not all that concerned that with China holding US bonds. I am a little bit worried that their government has been throwing good money after bad for a numbers of years, and how that will affect the economy, but if their boom has created sufficient liquidity in their system to splurge on some risk free debt and lower our cost of borrowing money, good for the Chinese.

8. I never said Bush was fiscally responsible. Quite the contrary. As for the articles, I?ve read them. I read them in 2000, I?ve read them recently. Several ?hard core? Republicans (not sure if I?d call them that, esp. critics such as Novak, Will, and to a lesser extent WFB, but it?s your prerogative) have never liked Bush and they now have their chance to be ?I told you so?s? since his approval ratings are in the toilet. When I voted for Bush, I knew what I was getting into bed with as much as I could. I didn?t really plan on a large scale terrorist attack that would necessitate a response, but I don?t think many people did. As for the compassionate conservative, I?ve already addressed that.

9. I?ve been preaching against the 17th amendment for years (as well as most of the ?Progressive Era? policies). If one chamber didn?t have to patronize the electorate, we would at least have one that was responsible and respectable. As for having a President able to respond to threats, negotiate treaties and have a handshake that means something, again ? that?s a good thing for the country, no matter how much you disagree with his policies. Bragging about looking weak is for certain other posters on this board. It?s not for heads of state.

10. I was in Italy a few weeks ago and I didn?t think it was tragic. The wine was great, the Italians were very accommodating and the food was remarkable. Same thing in France last year. Also, you give me the last attack on our soil and I?ll give you some numbers from when we had a Democrat in office. You can give me platitudes on how vulnerable we are and I?ll answer them with actual attacks ? zero. Despite the warm and fuzzy feeling you get when the French politicians like you (hell, they don?t even like each other) because they feel sorry for you, the truth is you are more far more vulnerable in that case as you are flashing weakness to people who would like to knock you down.

The Rest - Do I really need to address this? Hasn?t someone done this yet? Powell has been undermining the administration for years, even while he was giving his presentations. We had intelligence from Clinton, the British, the French, the CIA, even the freaking Russians. The rush to war rings hollow when you have 13 years of UN sanctions, repeated attacks on our troops, an attempt on a former President?s life, and a dictator telling everyone how he was going to attack. Sure, we couldn?t get anyone from Russia, de Villepin or Annan on board, but that was because they were all too busy cashing in on the Oil for Food program. The rest of your argument is the same banality you?d expect to hear from Penn, Rosie, and the rest of the wearers of the tin foil hat.

 

[6thGen]

Damn, Seababe, I've always considered Bach overrated. I did recently hear some Vivaldi that would make the hair on the back of your neck stand up at San Stefano (the one in Venice).

 

[30A Skunkape]

Here is the ABC news clip I was talking about....I like the look of it:clap_1:


http://mms.tveyes.com/Transcript.as...04/03/07+18:35:25&term=baghdad&PlayClip=FALSE

 

[Seababe]

"Damn, Seababe, I've always considered Bach overrated. I did recently hear some Vivaldi that would make the hair on the back of your neck stand up at San Stefano (the one in Venice)."

Vivaldi isn't to my taste actually neither is Bach but it was a requirement in music theory to be able to transpose it. Didn't like it then, don't now, and I'm actually more of a performer/teacher (play flute, piano, viola) with a taste for Rachmaninoff, Chopin, Scarlatti, Mozart, and Rimsky Korsakoff.

Is your middle name "condescending" by chance? Really....it's just not attractive at all I'm so turned off by uppity people. Intelligence is a great thing along with knowledge and experience traveling but snotty attitudes are so unappealing. High IQ's don't make you any better than the next guy.

I love jovial good natured people though.

 

[TooFarTampa]

Funny, most truly brilliant people I have come across never felt the need to beat the message of their mental superiority over other?s heads?it was just sort of self evident.

Exactly. And they also understand the value of humility. Which is not to be confused with false modesty.

 

[Seababe]

"Exactly. And they also understand the value of humility. Which is not to be confused with false modesty."

:clap_1: