Immigration Debate

[30A Skunkape]

Gordoboy, I went and looked for the financial impacy of illegals...you caught me in a fib. I added a zero to the total annual sum and apologize to all for the error. Still, the impact is not minimal:http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

 

[elgordoboy]

Gordoboy, I went and looked for the financial impacy of illegals...you caught me in a fib. I added a zero to the total annual sum and apologize to all for the error. Still, the impact is not minimal:http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

I agree that the impact is not minimal both positive and negative- it's a tough issue. In any case happy Independence Day to you Skunkape and all, discussions like this are what it is all about. I need an emoticon that floats the American Flag.

 

[Bob]

The grass is greener here.......

 

[elgordoboy]

The grass is greener here.......

It most certainly is, the greenest.

 

[scooterbug44]

Do "these folks" offer any benefits to our society? Some numbers I saw a few months back though I am sure it has changed some due to the housing slow down: Illegal aliens make up %8.6 of the work force, national unemployment is %5.4. Assuming all unemployed could step in and be productive immediately, what do we do with the other %3? That would still leave a goose egg in the jobless rate which is surely not healthy for the countryand an aging population should welcome new blood. But this is a nation of laws!! How many people here "smoke"? Anyone ever leave any of our fine establishments a little over the limit? I am not advocating a run on social services by Illegals but in the same vein I see a few of our own citizenry wrongfully using those same services. Having lived in rural GA and now in "rural" FL, native born can be much more abusive of our system imo

I have no problem with immigration -as I have stated previously, that's how my gene pool got here - my issue is with it being done illegally. There is a big difference between exceeding the speed limit and someone illegally entering, living in, and fraudently using tens of thousands of dollars of the social services of a country.

 

[elgordoboy]

I have no problem with immigration -as I have stated previously, that's how my gene pool got here - my issue is with it being done illegally. There is a big difference between exceeding the speed limit and someone illegally entering, living in, and fraudently using tens of thousands of dollars of the social services of a country.

There is a big difference between exceeding the speed limit and driving drunk. I was comparing misdemeanors not civil infractions. Being here illegally is a misdemeanor charge (and how many folks charged with misdemeanors are let go with little or no punishment everyday?). This is not a one sided issue of all we do for the illegals they do for us as well. People crossed borders to fill waiting jobs, not jobs Americans won't do, but jobs Americans can not do because there aren't enough of us (reference my above post on joblessness). To any who immigrated here legally congratulations on being able to live out in the open and not half under a rock.

 

[Smiling JOe]

There is a big difference between exceeding the speed limit and driving drunk. I was comparing misdemeanors not civil infractions. Being here illegally is a misdemeanor charge (and how many folks charged with misdemeanors are let go with little or no punishment everyday?). This is not a one sided issue of all we do for the illegals they do for us as well. People crossed borders to fill waiting jobs, not jobs Americans won't do, but jobs Americans can not do because there aren't enough of us (reference my above post on joblessness). To any who immigrated here legally congratulations on being able to live out in the open and not half under a rock.

I'm uninformed regarding the crime of being in the USA, illegally, but I do believe that income tax evasion is not a misdemeanor, and I do believe that falsified govt documents such as a Social Security Card and Driver's License is not a minor offense. I would venture a guess to say that many of the illegal aliens are not paying income taxes, as they are often paid in cash, and many of the ones whom are being paid via paychecks, are providing false documentation and ID's to their employers.

Regarding that other bold comment, I believe that every job in the US would be filled by Americans or legal immigrants if the jobs paid enough. ;-) Perhaps dishwashers and lawn care jobs warrant more pay.

 

[elgordoboy]

I'm uninformed regarding the crime of being in the USA, illegally, but I do believe that income tax evasion is not a misdemeanor, and I do believe that falsified govt documents such as a Social Security Card and Driver's License is not a minor offense. I would venture a guess to say that many of the illegal aliens are not paying income taxes, as they are often paid in cash, and many of the ones whom are being paid via paychecks, are providing false documentation and ID's to their employers.

Regarding that other bold comment, I believe that every job in the US would be filled by Americans or legal immigrants if the jobs paid enough. ;-) Perhaps dishwashers and lawn care jobs warrant more pay.

Not so much a bold statement as simply paying attention to what is reported on the national news. 8.6% of the work force is illegal and a governmet unemployment rate of 5.4% where are the people coming from to fill these jobs should the 8.6% be removed? Pull the octagenarians back in to clean behind your toilet? A pragmatic approach is needed. Inflation is bad enough as it is. To equate this with your argument in another thread--this is not a new issue it has been wink-wink from government, business, and people for 15 years, and now we decide to enforce "the law"?

 

[raven]

as a family of LEGAL immigrants, i wonder why americans are so amenable to their government randomly deciding not to enforce democratically created laws. it appears that a govt by the people for the people is not something that is celebrated here, but a govt by the elite for the masses is what's being promoted in the media. very strange. obviously those who support illegal immigration don't support humane labor and wage laws, or human trafficking or slavery controls or public health rules -- all laws created to benefit legal immigrants and people seeking REAL opportunity and equal rights in the country that generations of immigrants have died for, worse, they don't honor people that abide by the social contract of a democratic society.

"we need the workers and it's vital to our economy" is exactly what the plantation owners used to say during slave times. too bad things haven't changed much. it's the same people insisting that we have "guest workers" instead of citizens, just like slaves didn't have citizen rights, we are eliminating our important immigration laws, to facilitate the profit margins of greed. and no, amnesty is not the answer to creating citizens.

americans shouldn't want the jobs on offer, because those jobs being offered don't honor our labor, wage and safety laws. it used to say so much about america that despite pressures from the wealthy big business people, they cared more about the average, law abiding citizen and their rights were first.

it's so sad that the elite in this country would rather have a immigrant mean a mexican to clean their toilet for $3, than the sister of a political refugee from africa. america's immigration laws are the most diverse, tolerant and embracing of any country, but americans don't seem to want educated, law abiding immigrants, just those who will never be able to afford to live in their neighborhoods. i do notice that amongst my friends those who support illegal immigration tend to be wealthy and seeking a larger profit margin, while those who don't support illegal immigration tend to be legal immigrants and working people. i wonder whose voice will be heard in the end.

even cesar chavez a legendary leader of migrant workers from mexico established his own center to fight illegal immigration, because he understood it was compassionate to no one. amnesty serves no one. least of all LEGAL immigrants who honor american laws and democracy.

 

[raven]

I'm uninformed regarding the crime of being in the USA, illegally, but I do believe that income tax evasion is not a misdemeanor, and I do believe that falsified govt documents such as a Social Security Card and Driver's License is not a minor offense. I would venture a guess to say that many of the illegal aliens are not paying income taxes, as they are often paid in cash, and many of the ones whom are being paid via paychecks, are providing false documentation and ID's to their employers.

Regarding that other bold comment, I believe that every job in the US would be filled by Americans or legal immigrants if the jobs paid enough. ;-) Perhaps dishwashers and lawn care jobs warrant more pay.

wow. that's the truth right there! and by the way, since our government says it 'CANNOT AFFORD TO ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS OR OUR BORDERS' how is it they can afford to enforce tax laws? i mean there are 300 million people in this country they can police for tax purposes, but they can't tell us where 20 million illegal immigrants are? you don't have to be a braintrust to see which is the bigger job. i guess it just depends on your priorities and your honesty.

p.s. american seniors are going to need those minimum wage jobs in 2010 when the deal bush signed with mexico goes into effect. the deal? it was signed in 2004...when nobody was looking...mexican citizens will legally have the right to social security benefits despite not paying into it. good luck getting the money you need during your "golden years".