Saddleback Forum

[30A Skunkape]

I didn't say it was an unfair question, just thought it certainly gave a clear idea of just how unreligious the debate was.

How many people do you think would balk at voting in a mosque? Or in a building w/ a large pentagram on the floor?

How comfortable would you be entering a religious building to vote if that religion frequently and publicly condemned your lifestyle choices and sought to have legislation passed to deny you rights and legally allow them to discriminate against you?

Look, we have a history of voters contending with poll taxes, literacy tests, gender disenfranchisement...I don't think anyone who shows enough interest in voting will be too intimidated to vote in a church, especially if their vote is percieved as protective of their civil liberty.

 

[Rose Anna]

The thing that stood out to me was that we were looking at two very different kinds of campaign and voter outreach in that forum.

Obama took a conversational tone and gave thoughtful, nuanced answers to complex questioned.

McCain gave scripted answers to predictable questions -- answers designed to say little about policy and produce maximum soundbyte worthy applause lines.

It reinforced my opinion -- Obama respects the electorate and McCain thinks we're a bunch of idiots and all complexity is lost on us.

 

[scooterbug44]

We also have a history of poor voter turnout in mildly inclement weather.

Obviously people need to put forth an effort to vote, and it's not as blatant as a literacy test, but I could see locating the polls in a religious building as a way to discourage a certain segment of the population from voting and/or influence a vote.

 

[GoodWitch58]

I read Andy's post to say that there are many other voices and influences in our government - that won't necessarily change after a presidential election.

Part of having a system of checks and balances is that people must utilize it - Bush can't do things if there is a strong and united Congress opposing him and passing important legislation.

I don't disagree that the Congress has been completely ineffective...however, the Bush Administration set out to give the Executive Branch imperial power and to appoint Judges who will interpret the Constitution in the way that benefits the far right...they have followed their play book in spite of everything...and, they are proud of their accomplishments! They have accomplished much of what they set out to do...and Congress has been their enabler.

But, our country would not be where we are today if the President and his party had not had this agenda. From what I read of history (and I have lived through much of it too), this is a different place than where we have ever been before.

We need to get back on track and I believe that a different policy will yield a different result.

 

[rapunzel]

I don't disagree that the Congress has been completely ineffective...however, the Bush Administration set out to give the Executive Branch imperial power and to appoint Judges who will interpret the Constitution in the way that benefits the far right...they have followed their play book in spite of everything...and, they are proud of their accomplishments! They have accomplished much of what they set out to do...and Congress has been their enabler.

But, our country would not be where we are today if the President and his party had not had this agenda. From what I read of history (and I have lived through much of it too), this is a different place that we have ever been before.

We need to get back on track and I believe that a different policy will yield a different result.

It's sad to me that so few people see the connections between pro-life agenda and the mortgage crisis.

Many people will read the post above and think the bit about judges that please the far right to mean they will overturn Roe v. Wade. The problem is the growth of the power of the Presidency, the redistricting to benefit Republicans, the Justice Department hiring Oral Roberts University graduates over top of their class people from Harvard, deregulating the banking and insurance industries, rolling back consumer protection laws so that companies import lead covered toys.

Imperial is the right word, goodwitch.

This latest upswing in nationalism has me thinking of other words as well...words you heard a lot in 1930's Germany.

 

[Linda]

Swap Bush for Kennedy or Roosevelt, Iraq with Vietnam or Japan or Germany, rinse wash and repeat. I agree with Andy. The last 8 years have been unique, only because unique things happened during the period. (9/11, lest we forget). The country will be fine, with either candidate. It's a question of what direction you want the country to go politically. (left vs. middle in this case) I think it's important to remember, most of what you brought up goodwitch58 came about because of a lack of checks and balances in Washington. I would argue McCain matched with a democratic congress is change for the good, while Obama with a democratic congress is a step back to 2001. I guess, be careful what door you choose, what's behind it might not be what you expect.

"The worst nightmare for Republicans on Election Day is the Democrats' best-case scenario: control of the White House, a nine-seat net gain in the Senate, and a healthy gain on their 36-seat majority in the House. In that case, Democrats could steamroll President Obama's agenda into law."

 

[hnooe]

"The worst nightmare for Republicans on Election Day is the Democrats' best-case scenario: control of the White House, a nine-seat net gain in the Senate, and a healthy gain on their 36-seat majority in the House. In that case, Democrats could steamroll President Obama's agenda into law."

Whew, that one made me want to google the lyrics to "Happy Days Are Here Again."

 

[hnooe]

I would argue McCain matched with a democratic congress is change for the good, while Obama with a democratic congress is a step back to 2001. I guess, be careful what door you choose, what's behind it might not be what you expect.

2001. That might actually be a great place to step back to and start again after the last 8 wasted years, regardless. If only dreams could come true...

 

[GoodWitch58]

It's sad to me that so few people see the connections between pro-life agenda and the mortgage crisis.

Many people will read the post above and think the bit about judges that please the far right to mean they will overturn Roe v. Wade. The problem is the growth of the power of the Presidency, the redistricting to benefit Republicans, the Justice Department hiring Oral Roberts University graduates over top of their class people from Harvard, deregulating the banking and insurance industries, rolling back consumer protection laws so that companies import lead covered toys.

Imperial is the right word, goodwitch.

This latest upswing in nationalism has me thinking of other words as well...words you heard a lot in 1930's Germany.

Thanks for adding clarity to my post. That's exactly what I meant. In fact, there are quite a lot of Republicans for choice; however, the "play book" calls for the abortion issue to be used as often as possible for scare and intimidation tactics.

 

[Jdarg]

Whew, that one made me want to google the lyrics to "Happy Days Are Here Again."

I am sporting a huge smile on my face at the thought!