Universal Healthcare...an idea whose time has come??

[Smiling JOe]

Scooterbug, using your numbers of $1800 profit per surgery for the 5 people to split at 47 weeks of work, combined with Rapunzel's weekly maximum number of five surgeries for that team, I get quite a different answer.

$1800 profit per surgery X 5 surgeries per week = $9,000 per week.
$9,000 per week X 47 weeks a year = $423,000 pre-tax profit per year for the team

$423,000 / 5 team members = $84,600 per team member per year (pre tax)

I don't know many surgeons who would go through expense and sacrifice of med school, in order to earn $84,600 per year. That salary will barely buy you a starter home in SoWal (ss and granite), but that might be a stretch, depending on the debt of the surgeon.

 

[scooterbug44]

Yeah, I said it was rough math and it was also based on the numbers/scenario I was presented with.

Still, I'd definitely be willing to work 3 or so hours a day, 5 days a week, 47 weeks a year for your number of $84,600 pretax ;-)

So, if the drug companies weren't buying Superbowl ads to sell ED drugs, spending billions on perks and freebies to get Drs to prescribe them, and had stricter limits & controls on their patents, it could significantly reduce overall health care costs?

 

[rapunzel]

Scooterbug, using your numbers of $1800 profit per surgery for the 5 people to split at 47 weeks of work, combined with Rapunzel's weekly maximum number of five surgeries for that team, I get quite a different answer.

$1800 profit per surgery X 5 surgeries per week = $9,000 per week.
$9,000 per week X 47 weeks a year = $423,000 pre-tax profit per year for the team

$423,000 / 5 team members = $84,600 per team member per year (pre tax)

I don't know many surgeons who would go through expense and sacrifice of med school, in order to earn $84,600 per year. That salary will barely buy you a starter home in SoWal (ss and granite), but that might be a stretch, depending on the debt of the surgeon.

:rofl:

A surgeon's overhead is typically a smaller percentage of their practice than it would be for a medical specialty, closer to about 50% vs. the 66% of an office-based practice. And thankfully, most surgeons do still see a decent payor mix so they do a bit better. Otherwise, those numbers look right to me.

The point about SoWal really is a good one, though, and one that would really come into play with a single payor system. Who would come here to practice?

 

[Mango]

.well, I just think you will see quantity and quality go down significantly if we move to a single payor system.

Punzy, you make valid points, just curious if you've seen these numbers and what you're take is on it?

The United States spends nearly $100 billion per year to provide uninsured residents with health services, often for preventable diseases or diseases that physicians could treat more efficiently with earlier diagnosis (14).
Hospitals provide about $34 billion worth of uncompensated care a year (14).
Another $37 billion is paid by private and public payers for health services for the uninsured and $26 billion is paid out-of-pocket by those who lack coverage (14).
The uninsured are 30 to 50 percent more likely to be hospitalized for an avoidable condition, with the average cost of an avoidable hospital stayed estimated to be about $3,300 (14).
The increasing reliance of the uninsured on the emergency department has serious economic implications, since the cost of treating patients is higher in the emergency department than in other outpatient clinics and medical practices (11).

So, if the US were to move to a single pay healthcare system and indigents and
un-insured people were able to get preventive care, is it not possible that the funds saved could be given back to the physicians and hospitals in compensation?

 

[Smiling JOe]

Still, I'd definitely be willing to work 3 or so hours a day, 5 days a week, 47 weeks a year for your number of $84,600 pretax ;-)

Who wouldn't? My question is, are you willing to sacrifice so many years of your life in school and internships and debt, in exchange for what sounds like a good salary? As Punzey pointed out, that 3 hours per surgery might be many more hours, when you include follow up visits and trouble shooting problems during surgery.

 

[Miss Kitty]

Thanks punzey...I forwarded that to Mr. K

Premium for high deductible plan...$163.20 ...thanks punz...

 

[30A Skunkape]

Punzy, you make valid points, just curious if you've seen these numbers and what you're take is on it?

The United States spends nearly $100 billion per year to provide uninsured residents with health services, often for preventable diseases or diseases that physicians could treat more efficiently with earlier diagnosis (14).
Hospitals provide about $34 billion worth of uncompensated care a year (14).
Another $37 billion is paid by private and public payers for health services for the uninsured and $26 billion is paid out-of-pocket by those who lack coverage (14).
The uninsured are 30 to 50 percent more likely to be hospitalized for an avoidable condition, with the average cost of an avoidable hospital stayed estimated to be about $3,300 (14).
The increasing reliance of the uninsured on the emergency department has serious economic implications, since the cost of treating patients is higher in the emergency department than in other outpatient clinics and medical practices (11).

So, if the US were to move to a single pay healthcare system and indigents and
un-insured people were able to get preventive care, is it not possible that the funds saved could be given back to the physicians and hospitals in compensation?

You assume the uninsured will actually show up for routine appointments. For many, this is difficult because they are too busy working, have transportation barriers, need to tend to family matters, etc. Others are too lazy or frankly lack the neuronal connections to understand why it is better to go to a PCP's office as a matter of routine instead of an ER as needed.

 

[scooterbug44]

Why do you think that under the single payer/universal system the quality of care would decrease?

Do you think standardizing the rates would make it more difficult to attract skilled professionals to certain areas or specialties?

It seems that if everyone can go anywhere they want for care, those providing the best care/service would benefit, so unlike communism there is still an incentive.

 

[30A Skunkape]

Why do you think that under the single payer/universal system the quality of care would decrease?

Do you think standardizing the rates would make it more difficult to attract skilled professionals to certain areas or specialties?

It seems that if everyone can go anywhere they want for care, those providing the best care/service would benefit, so unlike communism there is still an incentive.

I think it would be a debacle. I have worked in the VA enough to get a sneek-peek of how things might be. I think standardizing rates will kill the drive people have to go into certain specialties that are more demanding physically and mentally. The natural outcome of people flocking to one provider in favor of another is poor access to a quality doc (because she will be slammed daily) and patients giving up or grudgingly going to the 'worse' provider, assuming the 'worse' provider stays in the game long enough. If you doubt any of this, please carefully read the New York Times story I provided above regarding the wonders of British dentistry.

 

[Mango]

You assume the uninsured will actually show up for routine appointments. For many, this is difficult because they are too busy working, have transportation barriers, need to tend to family matters, etc. Others are too lazy or frankly lack the
neuronal connections to understand why it is better to go to a PCP's office as a matter of routine instead of an ER as needed.

Say what?

Well here's another thought:
Maybe the drug companies can get rid of all the commercials and have one universal commercial that says:
Will cause flatulence, rapid channel surfing, neo-conism, eye twitching, drooling,........................etc.

Save all that marketing money so the drugs are cheaper.